Michael McMahon: In my experience, First Nations-led engagement in the industry is increasingly common. Craig, I’d love to know how you’ve seen First Nations engagement change over the course of your career?
A Wiradjuri architect and managing director of Nguluway Design Inc, Craig Kerslake draws upon his cultural heritage, community and knowledge of what Aboriginal people refer to as “Country.”
Image: supplied
Craig Kerslake: Well, that’s a substantial period, I’m afraid to say! I went to two universities and I was the token Indigenous person in the course. People thought I was a bit of a freak … because I wanted to talk about Indigenous design narratives. I remember feeling quite isolated.
Nowadays, we are talking frequently about narratives, community, neighbourhoods, sustainability and being with nature – belonging to Country – and people are realizing that this is all part of First Nations culture. I think it’s an exciting time for us to be in architecture.
First Nations applied knowledges in design has been growing exponentially. And it is a huge demand – you could say a burden – on First Nations people to produce all these answers. We need to go quietly, slowly, respectfully and with honour: Yindyamarra (Wiradjuri word). This requires society to just slow down so that we can consider things fully – from a broader context than just “what’s in it for me?”.
MM: Marni, what are your thoughts on where we are at now?
Marni Reti is a proud Palawa and Ngātiwai woman, born and raised on Gadigal Country. An architect at Kaunitz Yeung Architecture, she is also a lecturer and master’s design studio lead at UTS.
Image: supplied
Marni Reti: Craig’s story is so relatable to my experience at university because it was very similar … which is weird because the timing is far apart (sorry, Craig!)
I too had an isolated experience … To be fair, there were two other Indigenous students in the three years of my undergraduate course – one of them was my cousin. So, similarly to Craig, I was the token Aboriginal student.
I will recognize that the work I got to do at university was on the shoulders of people like Craig, Alison Page, Dillon Kombumerri, Carroll Go-Sam, Kevin O’Brien and Jefa Greenaway, so I had some precedents and substance to learn from and build upon. I feel really fortunate.
I think that now, policies (like the Connecting with Country framework) are making more space for First Nations participation and for Indigenous practitioners. I agree with Craig – things have changed only in the last five years in the way that projects are set up for engagement, particularly because of policies and frameworks.
The double-edged sword is basic economics – you know, supply and demand. Now we all need this [engagement] and there aren’t that many of us. So we [First Nation designers] all know each other and we have this network that I think is culturally based.
MM: Craig, I wonder how you manage relationships with community stakeholders and consultants. Is there something that you wish you’d done earlier in your career about managing and maintaining these relationships that are at the core of our networks?
CK: Prior to the last five years, when First Nations engagement has really taken off, I just did it privately over a cup of tea or maybe a couple of phone calls. Nowadays, I’m trying to steer [engagement] back to that very intimate connection with Elders – rather than these massive blown-out meetings that include two Elders and 25 people from [a large government department], for example.
I think it’s only fair to say that relationships are everything in our culture. You can’t really get anywhere unless you’re known to a community and they respect you and trust you … It’s about what we [as a collective] do, not us as individuals.
MR: Sometimes, clients or governing bodies don’t want you to do consultation – not because they’re necessarily against it, but because it takes time. And time is money.
It’s an ongoing battle for a lot of us … Yes, consultation costs money, but the value we get back from that consultation, the value we get from Country (and community) is so much more than monetary – and that needs to be more important.
CK: A good strategy for that, which I share with clients, is that you can do a design and then try to retrospectively work Country into it later, but that approach is going to cost you a lot of money and it will always be disingenuous and, most likely, lead to a poor outcome.
Or, you can take the approach of embedding Country into the design at the beginning and letting Country (not yield and cost) drive the design direction. Also, this approach doesn’t necessarily cost much more money – but the outcomes are usually compelling.
MR: I speak to a lot of stakeholders about designing with Country. I frame it like this: treat Country like a client or a stakeholder. Country also has objectives and requirements that need to be met. I have found that architects (who are struggling to understand cultural concepts) find this analogy helpful.
MM: I love the idea of Country as a stakeholder; it is a living and evolving thing and it needs to be treated accordingly. And as practitioners and First Nations people, we’re continuously evolving and embedding ourselves within our work, our stories, our culture, our experiences and our relationships.
Marni, I wondered how much has the industry evolved to ensure that the cultural safety and career longevity of Indigenous architects can be maintained?
MR: I can only speak from my own experience. The practice I’m at (Kaunitz Yeung Architecture) is not an Indigenous practice, but my directors have been working in Indigenous communities for over 10 years. They really value our [First Nations] cultural perspective.
Puntukurnu AMS Healthcare Hub by Kaunitz Yeung.
Image: Robert Frith
I bring a cultural lens to the practice and with that lens comes cultural responsibility, which may take me away from the office. They understand the kinship systems that require me to take leave for Sorry Business or other responsibilities that sit outside the realm of annual leave. They are really supportive. The evolution of work becoming more flexible over the past few years has been good in that respect, as I can still operate remotely.
I think practices that may operate in a more traditional way need to reconsider [structure]. They need to trust that the work is going to get done and it doesn’t necessarily need to happen between 9 am and 5 pm. They need to value our cultural responsibility as much as the cultural knowledge that we bring.
MM: Craig, thinking about what enables us to show up … Do you have any strategies that enable you to do this work without burning out?
CK: I think it’s about doing things that you really care about. Having a really strong purpose in the work we do puts a fire in the belly.
For me, it is a design gift to embed Indigenous narratives into architecture. Our work becomes about something deeply meaningful. I see it as a privilege to be able to do that and it’s a cultural duty that needs to be done appropriately.
After that, it’s about how you sleep and making sure you take some time off.
MM: How might we see more Indigenous-led projects in the built environment?
CK: I think Indigenous people need to be leaders in organizations. Marni and Michael, you both should be leaders and directors. People always talk about “finding your edge” (in your career) – well, you guys have “cliffs” because you have your First Nations culture. Being able to translate that “cliff” is a lifetime pursuit.
Also, when we all come together as an Indigenous design team (like the Blak Hand Collective), I think that will be a game changer.
MR: Sometimes, when I come in as Indigenous design lead or cultural lead, I find that the best move in that role is just to make space for the person who is right to be leading – who is often not an architect. The lead should be the community – it should be whoever the correct cultural authority is.
That’s what I’ve found to be the most comfortable space to operate within. I acknowledge that I have a professional skill as an architect, but they have a cultural expertise in the locality that I don’t. I think the more we make space for those community leaders, the better.
CK: I agree. That cuts to the core of this conversation because, really, it’s not about us; it’s about the collective, the community. As architects, we work to translate Elders’ voices and the voice of the community into the design … It’s not about being the hero architect.
MR: I think the biggest testament to whether we have engaged with the community successfully is when, at the end of the project, the community forgets to mention you and they proudly claim ownership of the building.
MM: Yes, that comes full circle to the network of the community, which is at the core of everything we do.
